Poll! Concrit/beta reading/etc!

[severity_softly]

I've been thinking about this a lot since I started beta reading more often, as well as for... other reasons recently. So, here goes!

[Poll #1258772]

Comments

[mnemosyne-1.livejournal.com]

*wields paddle*

;)

I make you bleed! BLEED, I SAY!

[innerslytherin]

Ooh, beta me harder, baby!

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

*bends over*

WOO HOO!

;)

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry, did you say something? *stares at icon*

[mnemosyne-1.livejournal.com]

Now there's something ripe for paddling. Mmmmm....

*has urge to write a spanking fic. Morgan teaching Reid the kinkier side of sex by showing Reid how to use a paddle on him. Reid is hesitant, until he sees how much Morgan loves to be spanked...

[innerslytherin]

You are probably the only person who could make me like that. So go forth and write it!

:D:D:D:D

[innerslytherin]

LOL Both Reid and Hotch appear to be staring as well.

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

I concur...

But I think Syne just exists to TEASE with things she could wirte, but won't now.

^_~

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

Mesmerized.

[innerslytherin]

*sigh* Probably true. Hm, I should have a pouty!face!Reid icon.

[mnemosyne-1.livejournal.com]

I will sometime! I promise. As soon as I have no more homework. In a few months.

[darkhawkhealer.livejournal.com]

D) all of the above.

If I catch something, I'll point it out.

I'm a fic snob. I demand amazing work. Both in my writing and what I read -- my rule is, if there are three or more grammatical errors in the first paragraph, I hit the back button. Of course, if the title is misspelled or the summary has errors, I'm not even looking at the fic.

If there are generally few errors but the flow is choppy, I won't say anything. That's just the inexperience of the writer, and that changes with time.

You also only get a comment from me if I approve of the fic. If the writing is tight, there are few (if any) errors, the characterisation is solid, I'll leave a comment saying how much I liked it. If I DO like the fic, but I catch something, I'll mention it.

I figure if I would want to know, you would too, right?

Consider that I will only comment on maybe...1 out of every 15 pieces I read? Full, extended pieces, not just chapters. Maybe one out of fifteen.

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

LOL - well, if there are multiple mistakes in the header, I won't read either, but even the best authors can make mistakes; I know I've had mistakes in my headers before. But I definitely agree that if there are multiple mistakes in the first couple of paragraphs I'll click back. That and if the fist few paragraphs don't "catch" me, I won't read either. I got picky about that in a screenplay writing class. There was this study done that people often form an opinion on movies/tv shows in the first first three minutes and readers for tv/movies/books will only read on if you catch them in the first few pages. Sooo, I try to do that as much as possible... not saying it always works, but I try.

[/rambling]

I figure if I would want to know, you would too, right?

I do agree, in the sense that I do want to know about technical errors. I DON'T want someone to say "Oh, your characterization is off" though, and it's happened. By the time the fic is "published", all comments like that do is make the author feel like crap (even if they were happy with characterization before), because that's not something they can "fix" easily. I do know, though, that some authors (generally newer ones) can be very sensitive about even technical corrections. Sooo, yeah, I try to be sparing in a comment.

Anyway, I am flattered if you're so picky and like innerslytherin and my fic! Thanks.

ETA: And, of course, we're talking about mistakes and I make several in my reply. *snerk* I'm at wok and haven't finished my first coffee yet. :P Good thing is I tend to know my usual mistakes and I generally catch them right away. >.>;;

[tattooedsappho.livejournal.com]

in regards to the regional stuffs - i like the challenge of spelling the UK style (and using their slang) so like, i dont like the beta to be all "you spelled favorite wrong!" when i write favourite but the other way around is muchos appreciated. ::nods::

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

Completely agree. I love brit pickers in HP fic (and Americans who can tell me where I screwed up Brit speak wise), just like I like being able to point out Brit spelling in CM fic. *cough* The last might just be me being picky.

What's funny is that when I got into fandom, I was like "fuck it, those Brits are just going to have to live with my 'favorite's and 'color's and 'realize's". >.> But them I realized how fun it was to learn to write a different way. (That may just be me though, and I've spent so long pottering that now Brit spellings are a habit that's hard to break!)

[darkhawkhealer.livejournal.com]

Characterization is the one thing I don't really bitch and moan about -- your Reid is different from my Reid is different from Canon!Reid, you know? We all have different interpretations of the same character -- what motivates them and what their past experiences are, and where their heads are at...it changes from writer to writer.

The only time I *do* complain about someone being OOC, is when there's been an established character in a fic and then suddenly he/she goes off the deep end. Like, for no reason, and with no warning.

Take Miles To Go -- you've established that Reid is insecure about his relationship with Morgan and that he's more likely to talk about something that bothers him (in the context of his relationship) rather than bottle it up, right? So if, in the next chapter, Morgan and Reid get into a fight and then Reid goes out and picks up a hooker; you and I are going to have words.

*beams* Mainly those words will be 'wait! WTF! What'd I miss!', but that's what I mean when I say 'out of character'. When you've already established something and then do something unexpected -- without showing us why, then I pipe up.

Otherwise, you have a different interpretation than I do. That's cool. As a writer, it's your job to make me believe it. That's HOW writers get better -- they take different interpretations of the same people, and then they say 'what if?'

*headdesk* It's early and talking about fic/writing turns me into a geek. Sorry.

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

DAMN IT. I need to email Innerslytherin and tell her we need to edit the hooker out of the last chapter!

*griiiin*

There are things that REALLY bug me about some characterization (I REALLY hate wimpy!Reid, for example), but I'm not sure I'd comment on that. If I did it would be an "only in beta notes" thing and depend on how well I knew the author and how badly it might require them to re-write. I'm inclined to say I wouldn't mention it at all, seeing as how most of the authors I know well enough are authors I generally really like their characterization. The closest me and Innerslytherin ever come to that is stuff like "um, does that make sense? that work?" while we're writing. *grin*

[nathaniel-hp.livejournal.com]

Just as a further explanation:
I did not check SPaG, repetition, phrasing, Britpick in the constructive criticism question, as, while I believe those to be very important, I only ever point those out when beta-reading, not when leaving comments/reviews. I include constructive criticism when beta-reading, where applicable.

Happy beta-reading!

[maggie-umbra.livejournal.com]

This is a wonderful pole! I've been reading fanfic for many years but I've written only occasionally and betad only occasionally. Recently, however, I've been bitten by the writing bug big time, so it's excellent to get to know what other peoples ideas of concrit are. I believe that constructive criticism is any criticism or advice given to an author in the spirit of helping them improve their piece/ability. From an authors standpoint, its any criticism that I can use to improve my piece/ability, regardless the spirit. It sure is nice to have someone who's kind about their criticism, tho. Great poll!

[plaid-slytherin.livejournal.com]

pointing out/correcting "regional" spellings (e.g British english spellings in US fanfic, or vice versa)

I wanted to say why I didn't check this box -- I don't fix people's *spelling* but if someone has used a wrong word or phrase for the setting of the fic, then I will fix it. I don't care if you say that Clark Kent wore a dark-coloured sweater but I will fix it if you put him in jumper. Especially in dialogue.

[slash-girl.livejournal.com]

pointing out/correcting "regional" spellings (e.g British english spellings in US fanfic, or vice versa)

I've never understood why this is even an issue. I spell the correct way for the country I was raised in. (That'd be Canada. :D) As long as the author is consistent throughout, why should it matter if they use colour or color? About the only time I could see it being a problem is if, say, in a CM fic the author is showing a note (or other writing) of one of the characters and used UK/Can spelling in that.

Now, I will admit that the use of Brit phrases in a fic for an American show, like using lift instead of elevator, or using a particularly British turn of phrase does bother me and vice versa.

As for commenting on a posted fic--I'll only comment on technical things if it's a person I know won't mind it. Same with characterisation--and then only if I think it's something that's wildly OOC. I find that too many people who say they welcome concrit don't really--they take any "negative" comments to just be criticism and take it personally.

I don't mind people letting me know if they spot a mistake in a posted fic (I don't care how many times you edit it and how many people beta read a piece, something always seems to slip through. And given that I've found errors in pro stuff, I cut fanfic some slack, too.)--I've even found mistakes in my own stuff when i've re-read it after posting and I'll go back and correct it. I'm a little touchier when it comes to characterisation--if someone thinks something's OOC, I don't mind them telling me as long as they say why. Often it comes down to the difference in how we view the characters. Like people saying that Hotch would never cheat on Haley. He most likely wouldn't but he is human and well...Reid. *G*

I don't do a lot of beta reading but when I do, I usually ask the person what they want me to read for. Do they just want a technical beta read or do they want me to comment on plot/characterisation as well? For my own stuff--I like to have both technical and concrit done because it's nice to have someone else's input on a story, although I often discuss what I'm writing with my beta as I'm writing the story. I find that helpful, too.

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

I'm a firm believer in pointing technical things out in comments, especially if they're major, but non-technical stuff, not so much.

Thanks!

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

Glad you liked the poll. And I agree. I know that my own writing has improved vastly over the last few years, and while some of that was just practice, a BIG part of it was through the help of good betas. :)

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, I agree, "wrong" words distract me more than spelling, and it's even more distracting in dialogue.

Thank you.

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

You know, I think I was trained on brit-picking in Harry Potter fandom, but I admittedly felt the same way when I first started writing: why does it matter? Over time, though, I came to find it a little fun to learn the "correct" spellings/phrases/etc for the fandom involved. I guess that's part of why Brit spellings distract me now, though I admit that, yes, "wrong" words (e.g. jumper instead of sweater) and dialogue that's not native to the characters bugs me a whole lot more than a Brit spellings. I recently read a fic where Reid or Morgan one said "You mustn't..." And while it was a cute ficlet, I went "Bwah?" for a moment. ;)

And, yes, I agree. I was saying to darkhawkhealer above that I find, especially in newer writers, that some people can take even technical notes the wrong way, so I try to be sparing in comments that the whole fandom can read. If I'm asked to beta read for someone, however, I just figure the person can take it. And if they don't like it. they just won't ask me to read for them again. :3 (though, I often warn people when I make a lot of notes. >.>)

I don't care how many times you edit it and how many people beta read a piece, something always seems to slip through. And given that I've found errors in pro stuff, I cut fanfic some slack, too.

Yes, sometimes even with up to four sets of eyes, things are missed. I caught a place in Miles To Go [...] where I typed "Remus" instead of "Reid" once out of former habit, and not a single person caught even that until I went to post it! Of course, everyone reading/writing it were former/current HP writers that wrote/write Remus quite a bit.

if someone thinks something's OOC, I don't mind them telling me as long as they say why.

YES. I got a comment recently like that recently... with no explanation. asjkglhajsgka! Hence, one of the reasons that I was inspired to post the poll. :)

Often it comes down to the difference in how we view the characters. Like people saying that Hotch would never cheat on Haley.

*G* And I would be one of those people. Generally speaking. Not saying I won't ever write it, or that I don't read and enjoy it. Because, like you said: REID. *G* But yes...

And, along the same lines of everyone seeing the characters differently, I read something this morning that said "No OOC Hotch, like him suddenly become a total romantic." And while I agree that he's not going to wax poetic or write soliloquies to his lovers and proclaim them in front of the entire BAU (*SNORT*), I can't help but see him as a total closet romantic. I mean, the guy married his high school sweetheart. And the pirate hat? Come on! *cough* But again, that's totally MY interpretation. *G* And, again, that's not saying I won't ever write him differently, or that I don't enjoy reading him differently. But yes... ;)

I usually ask the person what they want me to read for.

So do I, if it's someone I don't know at all. But while I can generally keep from commenting on characterization/plot, I can't stop myself from going "this phrasing is really awkward" or "maybe you should swap these phrases around so it makes more sense" even when asked for a straight technical beta. Um, whoops? >.>

I only really talk to my beta while I'm writing if I'm stuck somewhere, but I do really like a beta that will write ALL OVER my fic after it's done, even if I don't always agree. I think my writing has improved vastly over the last few years, and I know, without a doubt, that much of that is thanks to some good betas.