Hotch's abusive past: does he ever talk about it?

[severity_softly]

So recently I've been thinking about Hotch's abusive past in relation to who he might tell about that (I'm sure the person that made me think about this knows who she is, and please know that I'm not attempting to invalidate your perspective at all).

I like to believe that he's been able to open up to people he's close to (Haley, Rossi, Gideon, and maybe Reid). I should clarify that I'm speaking strictly in canon. I think people in trusting romantic relationships tell each other things like this, so I could see Hotch telling other people in any fandom ship, if the romantic relationship was done well.

I was wondering, however, if there was any canon evidence to support this either way. SO... I'm doing a rewatch of all four seasons of CM over the summer (not because of this question), and was just rewatching Natural Born Killer, the episode in which Hotch's past abuse is revealed. Gideon has been talking to Vincent, and the team is finally piecing together Vincent's abusive past. Gideon looks at Hotch and asks if Hotch wants to take the rest of the interview.

To me, there is absolutely no reason in my head that Gideon would want to give over the interview to Hotch, who's been beaten up by the unsub already (which only amuses Vincent), unless he thought Hotch had more insight here than he did. Simply put, this exchange to me says clearly that Gideon knows Hotch was abused. And before you say it, as far as I can tell, Gideon shouldn't have this information because of his position; neither Hotch or Gideon knew about the abuse in Morgan's past in Profiler, Profiled, after all.

Of course, it's not so specific that people can't read it anyway they want; they could just say Gideon wasn't getting anywhere with Vincent, so he thought a change might work, or that Gideon is just so good he figured that out about Hotch without being told (though I think that fact that Hotch doesn't seem surprised josses that theory). So what do you all think? I'm posting a poll, but more detailed replies in comments are always love.

[Poll #1414572]

Comments

[mcgarrygirl78.livejournal.com]

I am of the school that a small percentage of the abuse Hotch suffered was physical and most was mental/psychological, not that that makes it OK. If Haley was his high school sweetheart, which I dont exactly remember but I think she was, she would probably be aware of this. I definitely think Hotch told Gideon, trusted him, may have even looked at him as a father figure. Rossi as well though the relationship of Rossi and Hotch canonly almost makes it seem as if Gideon didnt have that big of a role in Hotch's life but whatever. I think in general conversation things could come up, not revelations but just ways Hotch says things, perspectives he sees things from, interaction with victims, unsubs, friends, and colleagues. Good profilers like these could put two and two together and get four, which is certainly not as easy when you are dealing with someone who suffered sexual abuse as Morgan had.

I dont think Sean had the same kind of childhood as his brother, there are a fair number of years between them, 11 if you really want to believe Hotch was 36 when the show started......I think 40 would have been more accurate, so he was young when their father passed away and their mother possibly remarried. Also, in The Tribe, Hotch just seems so angry that Sean is getting to choose his own path of being a chef instead of going to law school as their father had and he had.....the thought would have never entered his mind to deviate from the path set forth by a man who was dead by the time he had to make the decision. Sean's thoughts were on what made him happy, not his parents or even his brother.

[dragontatt.livejournal.com]

Hotch and Haley met in college....he ended up auditioning for Pirates Of Penzance (I think?) to meet her, remember?

[rilee16.livejournal.com]

I thought he auditioned for that during high school.

[dragontatt.livejournal.com]

Maybe you're right, but I would have sworn it was college.

[dragonladyk.livejournal.com]

I could be either. The date doesn't make sense in either context. :/

For further confusion, the date on the divorce papers says Hotch and Haley didn't marry until 2000.

I swear under Hotch's backstory in the show bible it just says: "whatever."

DragonLady

[mcgarrygirl78.livejournal.com]

I remembered Pirates of Penzance and forget the rest : )

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

I believe it was physical, and I believe that you can't have physical abuse without emotional abuse, so it was both, you know. And yes, he fell in love with Haley at first sight when he did a production of The Pirates of Penzance in his Junior year (I think). I don't see how you can meet someone at 17, fall in love with them, and stay with them till your in your forties and not tell them things like that. My husband knows pretty much all my dark stuff, and I've only known him 6 years.

I agree with you about him and Sean, though I always thought it was the "good" father that was the lawyer. :P

ETA: Rossi as well though the relationship of Rossi and Hotch canonly almost makes it seem as if Gideon didnt have that big of a role in Hotch's life

I was actually going to say that if this episode wasn't the basis for my thinking there is canon support for Hotch telling people, I might not think he would tell Gideon. :/

[rilee16.livejournal.com]

And much of the time, if it's physical, even when the abusive parent is "careful" about where they're focusing their abuse, there'll be scars of some sort.

[mcgarrygirl78.livejournal.com]

I think Hotch and Gideon were very close. I mean Hotch knew personal stuff about his son, which I dont think the other profilers, except maybe Reid knew, and Haley was clearly jealous of the time they spent together and the closeness they shared. At the time he was there, and possibly for a long time before, I think they were the two closest members on the team and definitely more than just teammates.....that was a real friendship and special to both men. All my humble opinion of course.

Oh and I definitely think there was physical abuse but I think Hotch learned early on that being "perfect" might keep the fists from flying in his direction. He was probably right sometimes but since his father was a drinker his temperment could change at a mooment's notice. They dont tell us much about his father so I cant figure out if he was an "didnt quite make it" or a "made it and everyone covers up for the bad things he did", I lean more toward the latter in my mind. Hotch was 17 I think when his dad died, he mentions it in Ashes and Dust so I thought it was his biological father who had been the lawyer but his stepfather could have been one as well. His mother only traveled in certain circles surely and had the "right" kind of husband.

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

I think Haley was jealous of everyone on the team and the time they spent with Hotch. She used to call JJ because she said it was sometimes the only way she could reach him. And I think Hotch and Reid were closer than Hotch and Gideon (even through season three, Hotch was trusting Reid by talking to him about his divorce, etc). Then again, I do sometimes wear shippers goggles where those two are concerned. And it's been a long time since I've watched the first two seasons and I'm only on ep 8 now, so I may be surprised later, but I just don't think so.

Shipper's goggles aside, I think any man who can just ditch his so called "friends" without so much as a goodbye to all but one of them, wasn't really close to any of them. He didn't give anyone but Reid the "courtesy" (and I put that in quotes because a note is a shitty thing to leave a kid with abandonment issues with). That's not what close friends do if they are still capable of considering each other's opinions (and Gid obviously was if he had the foresight to know Reid would be crushed.)

*cough* And, of course, that's all my humble opinion too. :D

[mcgarrygirl78.livejournal.com]

I dont think we will ever agree on this, but you knew that. Gideon clearly had issues, I would never deny that., hell they all do. When you love/care for someone you accept them for who they are and adding to his personality, closed off as it seemed, the tragedy of a good friend being brutally murdered and the killing of six teammates in a bombing like two years before and he felt everything he touched turned to shit.....surely Hotch knew that better than anyone.

And while I would never say Hotch was not hurt by his disappearing act, I dont think he was very surprised, the men knew each other for probably as long as Hotch had been in the BAU and I believe they knew each other well and deeply. He could have possibly taken some blame for him onto himself as he is the one who asked Jason to come back to the BAU.

Maybe you will get more of a sense of that rewatching, maybe not, I just know I always felt that way from the beginning....before fandom, shipping, or any of that ever became a reality for me.

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

*G* No, we probably won't ever agree. <3

the tragedy of a good friend being brutally murdered and the killing of six teammates in a bombing like two years before

Going on medical leave is very different from just running away. I just still think if he was close to any of them, and aware that they would be hurt, the least he could have done was give them a call and say "I have to go; I'm sorry." Not trusting your friends to try to help you is almost a betrayal of trust.

And I'm not making the argument that Hotch didn't understand Gideon's leaving, or didn't know Gideon well enough that he was surprised. It was Hotch that said he didn't share much of himself, so why would he be surprised? I'm just saying that if they were close, there should have been more consideration taken for a friend if he had the capacity to care about it, which he did.

the men knew each other for probably as long as Hotch had been in the BAU

Aaahhhhh Hotch's fucked up timeline. He says somewhere that he worked his first case with Gideon in 1999. But he also worked with Rossi before, and it's implied that Rossi left the first time after Waco and Ruby Ridge, which was the early/mid '90s. I THINK it's also implied that Gideon and Rossi worked together too... so that just fucks that all up. LOL Not debating anything here, btw, just amused. Who KNOWS when Hotch showed up, considering how screwy his timeline is. :P

[mcgarrygirl78.livejournal.com]

Dont they say in Omnivore Hotch joined the BAU in 98?

It seemed to me once Rossi was inroduced it was as if Gideon was never there (except maybe as a punchline) and he was replaced by Rossi in all the old photos, so to speak.

The timeline and continuity stuff is a big problem on the show but I stick to my original thoughts on the relationship. I dont necessarily like how it ended, and that's a writing issue after Mandy had been a total diva and hadnt really endeared himself to anyone, but from scenes the two of them had together in season 1 and 2 I believed they were close. Not to mention the chemistry I think the two actors had from working together in the past.

[innerslytherin]

Nope, I just rewatched Omnivore. *G* hotch says it was his first case as the BAU's lead profiler. He would have had to have been a profiler before that in order to be the lead, is how I interpret that. :)

[innerslytherin]

I checked Gideon, but I have to say that I think his trust for Gideon was in the past. Gideon couldn't show up now and expect Hotch to confide much of anything in him, I think. Between the way his leaving hurt Hotch and the way it hurt Reid, Hotch probably doesn't trust him any more.

*cough*

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

I agree. To be honest, without him being the basis of my canon "evidence" here, I probably wouldn't have checked Gideon at all. Gideon didn't connect with people (Hotch even says he doesn't share much of himself), so I can't imagine Hotch giving that much to a man unwilling to hardly give at all... but that's just me. But, I think the canon speaks for itself, so I can't really argue that so much.

[darkhawkhealer.livejournal.com]

I don't believe Hotch would tell anybody he was in a romantic relationship with. I don't think he'd want to show them that vulnerability.

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

But... you're SUPPOSED to be able to trust your romantic partner more than anyone, if you've been together long enough to have grown that close. Trusting someone means trusting them to see your vulnerabilities and not judge you on them. Vulnerability is part of being human, and if you can't be human with your spouse, you're fucked. If anything, if I had to chose one and only one person on that list, I would say hands down it's Haley.

[darkhawkhealer.livejournal.com]

I disagree.

Hotch has shown that he tends to compartmentalize his life. He separates work from home. It makes sense that he would separate his past from his present. He's also shown himself to be the caretaker in that specific dynamic. It's his role to be the strong, supportive provider. I don't think he would tell her because it would alter her opinion of him, especially if they did meet/fall in love at a young age. If he can't tell her and lean on her when he's had a bad case at work, how could he think of telling her something horrifying about himself?

I think that Hotch would tell a stranger on the street if it was relevant to a case. He'd tell a victim, he'd tell a witness, he'd even tell a suspect to evoke a response. He would not tell someone whose opinion of him mattered.

I even think he would tell one of the team, if ASKED. He would never volunteer the information, it wouldn't come up in conversation. But if, say, Morgan started adding up all the things he knows about Hotch, and he approached him quietly, I don't believe Hotch would deny it. And the lack of a denial is as much of a confirmation as Morgan would ever get.

I also believe that the reason why Sean's personality is so wildly different from Hotch's is because Aaron took the brunt of the abuse and protected his little brother from being targeted. In a way, he grew up sheltered in the knowledge that his big brother would always protect him. It's part of what cemented Aaron's own personality as an adult.

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

It makes sense that he would separate his past from his present.

His past made him who he is. I don't think that he CAN separate them. Not saying he sits around and broods on it, but with everything he sees, I don't think that's possible.

I don't think he would tell her because it would alter her opinion of him, especially if they did meet/fall in love at a young age.

LOL See, I think maybe our opinions on love are different. I think that if you love someone, something like this won't change your partners opinion of you. He was young and not in control. He did nothing wrong. And he is who he is now, in spite of all of it. If my husband were the strong provider type, I certainly wouldn't just suddenly think he wasn't because of something horrible that was done to him a long time ago. The things your spouse does themselves change your opinion of them daily; the things that are inflicted on them by cruel hateful people do not. Or at least should not. AND I think that an angry teenager would be more likely to want to spill his angst to a loved one than a jaded adult who's seen so much horror that his own doesn't seem so "special" anymore.

If he can't tell her and lean on her when he's had a bad case at work, how could he think of telling her something horrifying about himself?

Because there's a difference between personal and impersonal. He tells her and she has a deeper understanding of him, a closer relationship with him, they share this amazing trust that any solid couple should. He tells her about the horrors of his job, he makes her worry, fearful, afraid for their son on a daily basis. Look at what the job is doing to JJ now that she has a baby. Knowing about all the worst evils in the world is very different from knowing something intimate about your spouses past that was painful for them.

I also believe that the reason why Sean's personality is so wildly different from Hotch's is because Aaron took the brunt of the abuse and protected his little brother from being targeted.

I just believe they grew up in very different households. I think they're stepbrothers and Sean wasn't in the same household with the abusive father at all.

[slash-girl.livejournal.com]

Given my own personal timeline/family circumstances for Hotch, I don't think he ever told Haley. It happened when he was quite young (I believe Mr. Hotchner was his step father and sean's bio father; in canon there is at least 10 years between them, thus Sean never experienced the abuse), well before he met her and he felt that he'd dealt with it. Why bring it up when it would only upset her. I don't see Haley as being the type to deal very well with knowing that about his past. But that could be my anti-Haley bias showing.

I can only see him telling Gideon or Rossi if they sussed it out and asked him about it. (I think he'd be honest if any of the team asked him about it--he's not one to lie.) Now, given my firm belief Hotch and Reid are a couple, *G*, I can see him telling Reid, if only because Reid is, in his own way, as damaged as Hotch is--but Hotch has worked through much of his damage...and I think he'd want to let Reid know that it's possible.

But that could be my slashiness showing.

[woodchoc-magnum.livejournal.com]

I think it was physical/emotional abuse - I think as Hotch grew older he learned how to dodge the beatings (for example, over achieving at school, not causing any trouble, keeping his mouth shut, trying to be the perfect son), but I think the emotional abuse was the abuse that mostly took its toll.

I also think, out of the BAU and people Hotch has worked with, that he would've only told Rossi and Gideon - a lot of people have said Reid but I don't think Hotch was/is ever close enough to Reid to reveal those kinds of details about himself. I think maybe if Morgan pressed him it might come out, but I don't think it's something Hotch would reveal willingly to Morgan. (I sort of see Hotch and Morgan being closer friends than Hotch and Reid, but I'm a little biased that way at the moment!) I also think Haley must have known but his brother, no. I think that's something Hotch would've kept from him.

[innerslytherin]

Mmm you icon makes me drool.

Even without my Morgan/Hotch slash goggles on, I think Morgan is someone he might tell. Given the way he had to probe into Morgan's history in "Profiler, Profiled", maybe he would do it to make amends...

I don't know, but I can see it.

[severity-softly.livejournal.com]

Mmm you icon makes me drool.

Reid is doing naughty things below the frame.

[nebula99.livejournal.com]

I think Gideon knew - and he knew because he'd pushed Hotch about it. Gideon and Hotch were very close, although I think Hotch gave more than he ever got out of that relationship. They moved apart as Gideon became more insular but I think Hotch was as shocked and upset as Reid when Gideon skipped off into the sunset without so much as a phone call.

I think Rossi suspects, but has never asked.

I don't think he told Haley, but I think he'd tell Reid - if the situation warranted it.

[innerslytherin]

Personally I wouldn't marry someone if I didn't think I could tell him something like that.  And I think Hotch is the same.  However strong-and-silent-stiff-upper-lip he seems, he was HEAD OVER HEELS for Haley.  She was his high school sweetheart.  As Rossi points out in "About Face", Hotch used to talk to her ten times a day on the phone during the early days of his job.  I mean, come on.

On top of that, newfangled parenting ideas aside, there are still a lot of people who spank their children.  And when Haley got pregnant, you can bet that she and Hotch talked about things like how to discipline their children.  I honestly stand by my belief that Hotch would never raise a hand to his child, and that he would tell her that.  I can't imagine he wouldn't tell her WHY.  Maybe Haley doesn't believe in spanking, maybe she does, but I think I was well-founded in that one fic in saying that if Jack ever needed spanking, Hotch made Haley do it because he was afraid he wouldn't know when to stop.

Now, regarding his telling of the other people, Hotch is NOT Emo-boy.  He's not going to be all weepy and angsty about his childhood.  He survived it, he knows the way he was treated was wrong, and he does his best to save other children from being treated like that.  But I don't think he goes around talking about it all the time.  I think that Dave knows, and I think he probably knows mostly because of some case or other they worked on that was relevant, early in their acquaintance.  The same for Gideon - maybe the same case, for that matter.  I don't think Hotch would ever just spout out that he was abused.

[lady529.livejournal.com]

I think there's a bigger chance he'd tell someone he's not close to if he thinks it might help them, perhaps a witness or victim in one of their investigations who's struggling with an abusive childhood, either past or present. I don't think he'd go into detail with anyone he knows; even though I think Gideon might have known, and I can see him telling Morgan a tiny bit after what happened in 2x12 Profiler Profiled, I don't think he would go into detail. He just seems to hone his stoic mask too much to let anyone he has to work with every day know everything.

The Lady 529

[dragonladyk.livejournal.com]

There wasn't an "other" option (or a multi-check option) so I'll reply in comments.

I think that Hotch's preference is to tell only his closest companions: that his natural inclination would be to only tell Gideon -- if anyone outside his family -- and even then with as much brevity as possible. That being said, if his team needs to know (either to comfort/stabilize an individual in some way or as part of victimology) or if it could be used as leverage to crack an unsub, Hotch would talk about it as much as he had to with as much detail as he had to. "For the sake of the job" is kind of Hotch's universal trump card: he does a lot of things he's not comfortable with for the sake of his team/saving the victim/catching the unsub.

EDIT: And Gideon was one sick dude, IMO, especially when it came to Hotch. So whereas Hotch thought of Gideon as a dear friend he could trust and needed to care for/protect, Gideon thought of Hotch more as a "possession" he could manipulate and leave at will.

DragonLady